I am working, Guv, honest!

[tolquhon]

Oh, I am the Guv. Well, that's all right then!

Was surfing the 'net looking for sommat work-related (no, really!) when I tripped over this:

King's Shilling Anyone?!

Why's there no army alternative? Seems odd to me that it's specifically aimed at Navy "recruits", but whatever.

Comments

[mitzimaybe]

Saw this on "latest things" and hope you don't mind me commenting.

I suspect (but not 100% sure) that the reason there's no army equivalent is that, in those days, the King would require landowners to raise an army from the serfs / peasants who worked their land. The same didn't apply to sending men to sea, so to recruit for the Navy, other means had to be used.

[sharpiefan]

That might have been true earlier but not by the 18th/19th century, in Britain. Recruits to the Army were given a shilling as a token that they were now in the King's service... but then, anyone starting work under a new master would be given a shilling as a token that they were now under a new master.

The Navy had press-gangs who could 'press' men who 'used the sea' (fishermen, homeward-bound merchant seamen, colliers, those working on coastal barges - even watermen who worked on inland rivers!) and they were given 'prest money', though I don't know whether it was a shilling.

Army recruits were all officially volunteers.

(I love history! :D )

[mitzimaybe]

So why did they need press-gangs for the navy but not the army?

[sharpiefan]

Because it was a vicious circle: Men could be at sea for years at a time, with no shore-leave. When a ship was in harbour, the men weren't trusted to desert, so they couldn't even get leave to see their families. And the pay wasn't so good in the Navy as it was in the merchant navy - and was months in arrears at the best of times.

And of course there are few people who will put up with that sort of treatment.

Manning the Navy was always an issue; sailors were very skilled people - it took years to train a man to a level whereby he could be rated an able seaman, but to train a soldier only takes a few weeks at most.

[mitzimaybe]

So going to sea was a life sentence (or death sentence, obviously) whereas in the army they expected to be treated better / have leave to see their families etc? Interesting. I'd have thought you'd have to be desperate to do either, but I guess there were a lot of desperate people about in those pre-social-security times. Thanks for the info.

[sharpiefan]

Something like that. If you were a married man in the Army, you might be lucky enough to be able to take your wife abroad with you, but you had no such opportunity at all in the Navy.

(I'm a history geek who belongs to the Age of Sail fandom. And you know what fans are like! :D )

[tolquhon]

A-hem *elbows in past Professor Sharpie* Hello there! You're very welcome to comment, and I'm sure you're right that at a certain time in history, armies were raised that way. I'm afraid Sharpie and I wade deeply in the Age of Sail fandom, which is late 18th/ early 19th century, for which time her details are correct.

I spy Scotney in your icon - are you perchance in South East UK, or is that a red herring?? One of the things I liked best about Scotney was Ye Olde Net Curtain I spotted hanging in one of the windows just - I think - a bit further to the left of what's visible in your pic!

[tolquhon]

I dunno - I get caught in the shop for an hour, and my journal gets highjacked!!! ;p

*hugs*

[tolquhon]

*nicks Sharpie's professor hat* There wouldn't have been leave as such - not while a regiment was deployed anyway - but a certain number of wives were permitted to go along, and some got picked up along the way!

Criminals often saw the army as a way to escape justice, and of course - for the very poor - it seemed like a good option when starvation looked like the only alternative. Some of the recruiting officers could be very persuasive, too, and make it seem like a much better life than it was. For some, it probably was a far better alternative than the standard of living in their home town. After all, it provided them with a wage...the recruiters just tended to neglect to mention that the pay could be rather a long time in arrears!

I hope you're not regretting that first comment now! ;)

[sharpiefan]

*looks innocent*

[tolquhon]

You can look innocent???? I'd like to see that!!!!

*ducks 'n' covers*

[mitzimaybe]

*Whistles innocently*

[mitzimaybe]

Regretting? No, not at all.
Erm... well... you know...

[mitzimaybe]

I live in "that London" but love to get out into Kent / Sussex from time to time. The last time I visited Scotney (when I took the icon photo) the old castle was closed as there had been a fire; you used to be able to go in and have a good root around - the room steward would open cupboards to show all the interesting (strange) curiosities inside, if you were lucky. I don't remember Ye Olde Net Curtain, I'm afraid.

[tolquhon]

Since I can tell that you can barely contain your excitement...

For your delectation, I give to you "Ye Olde Net Curtains of Scotney", in two parts:





*shrugs* Little things amuse me (!) what can I say?!